Ask Sean Penn a question, any good question at least, and the first thing that will strike you is how carefully he considers his answer. Rather than simply shoot out a glib, prepared response, he sits still for a moment, ponders the question and then speaks. The second thing that strikes you is the power with which he speaks about the art of filmmaking. He speaks with a measured force, and the confidence of a man who is very good at what he does, and knows it.
Before the interview, I was given the opportunity to follow Mr. Penn and the directors of the Dartmouth Film Society around, taking notes every now and then and generally just observing. The first time I managed to catch up with them was during the first seminar put on by the film studies department. When one hears about Sean Penn in the press, he is not often described as a talkative man, and certainly not one who is willing to answer a lot of questions. They should try talking to him about film sometime. He was fielding questions from both students and professors, questions about acting in front of the camera, about directing behind it, about writing, producing, getting your foot in the door, hitting the mark, everything. I decided now would be an opportune time to get some quotes down. Little did I know.
While fielding a question about his writing, Penn brought up the subject of jail, a setting used prominently in his film "The Crossing Guard." "I like to write what I know. I have to write what I know, or I try to go out and find out about it." He talked about his own experiences with jail briefly, and why the depiction of the penal system in some other movies has always bothered him. "I have nothing against stylization at all, but if I become aware of the problems in the film, if it becomes so stylized that it pulls me out of the movie, that's a problem."
One student asked him about the pressures of getting a film made as a producer and director. There were several questions like this throughout the day, and I don't think it would be untrue to say that there is no subject closer to Penn's heart than the struggle of getting a movie made. He grinned while formulating his answer. "There is such great, great energy in creativity. When you're writing, creating, there is such energy in that. But there's also the hustle, talking to people, trying to get them to put money in your movie. Orson Welles once said to making a movie is 98 percent hustle, 2 percent filmmaking. The creation is wonderful, but the hustle takes it out of you."
Since it was an audience of prospective directors and filmmakers, Penn was asked several times what it took to be a director, and what he personally felt were his strong points. This answer came slower than most. "I like to think that I can show my actors what a generally silly person that I am, first of all. I find that if they can look at me and say, 'Well, he's a clown', then it will make them feel less constrained about the choices that they make."
Erin Dignam, a writer/director and a member of the cast of "The Crossing Guard," chimed in. "One thing that I can say about Sean as a director is that he watches extremely well. In one scene, I'm having an argument with another man and in one particular take I felt as though I should touch his face. I didn't do it, it just felt like I should. Sean comes up to me before the next take and says, 'Try touching his face is the next one.' So he has an excellent eye and is very supportive of his actors."
On the subject of mainstream Hollywood, Penn is a little less lighthearted. "It seems as though we're setting up a genre of movies where if you have good ab muscles, you can kill anyone. There's no story. People who make movies like that should die of rectal cancer. Screaming." (When I was introduced to him as a reporter from the D about an hour later, Penn shook my hand and said, "That was rectal cancer, r-e-c-t-a-l ...") Another student asked him flat out what he thought of the Hollywood system. Again, he gave a rather surprising answer. "You know, to me, Hollywood is like a bank. You get together with a couple of friends, decide which door to go in and when, take the money, and hopefully go do something worthwhile with it."
To Sean Penn, making movies seems to be more about personal connections than the expectation of personal success. "If the group of people you're making a movie works, it becomes like a traveling circus, like a family. One of the best things about directing is that you get to choose the people that make up this circus. As an actor, you don't get to choose the people." He pauses, then grins. "Like our electoral process."
Toward the end of the last seminar, I decided to ask a quick pre-interview question. I asked him how he felt about pre-release screenings, which is when a movie is viewed by a private audience before it is released wide, so that changes can be made should the audience prove less than receptive. Unsurprisingly, Penn's take was no different than most directors. "Look at it historically. Historically speaking, for the time they started [public screenings], movies have gotten worse and worse and worse. I mean, it's okay if you're making a flat-out comedy, and you need to know if the laughter from this one scene is going to bury your next bit of dialogue, but for most movies, no. It's more for advertisers than filmmakers."
Penn concluded the seminars by offering a warning to film students. "Censorship is coming back, folks, big. It's coming back and it's the responsibility of the new filmmakers to stop it."
Finally, a half-hour before the presentation of the tribute at 8 p.m., I got to sit down with Penn and ask a few questions of my own.
The D: I know that you have very strong ideas on what makes a movie worthwhile. As a director, or even as an audience member, what makes you say, "Okay, that was worth it. That movie deserved to be made?"
Penn: I suppose that you get caught up in it. That the movie pulls you into its world. I think that audiences don't always know when they're being lied to, but they will always be able to figure out when they're being told the truth. I think that a movie becomes worthwhile when it shows you something new, something with truth and heart.
The D: You have always been called one of the greatest actors of your generation. Do you see anyone now who you like, anyone coming up through the ranks that you've got your eye on?
Penn: Oh yeah, the director of Amores Perros [Alejandro Gonzlez Irritu].
The D: Why? What specifically about that movie?
Penn: It's great that it's a movie about love. Unapologetically and brutally. And the structure of the film is amazing too. It's very ambitious the way the foreground of one story makes up the background of another story. It's just highly structured and I like that about it.
The D: I read that your second film, "The Crossing Guard," was inspired partially by the birth of your own child, and partially by hearing about the death of Eric Clapton's son. Your third film, "The Pledge," also deals with the subject of the death and protection of children.
Penn: Yeah, "The Crossing Guard" was definitely an exorcism of the fears of parenthood. You think about what you would do if the unthinkable actually happened, and writing this movie was sort of cathartic experience to get rid of those demons. "The Pledge" is not really inspired by the same feelings. It was more just a question of wanting do this movie. It really didn't have that theme.
The D: You've pretty much run the gamut as far as jobs that you can do in Hollywood. Acting, writing, directing, producing, you've pretty much done everything that can be done, and had a lot of success with it. Which job do you feel you are more naturally suited for?
Penn: As far as my life goes, it's definitely more suited to directing. You only have so much time to do the things that you want to do, and right now there are so many projects that I want to work on and direct. So for right now, yeah, my life is much more suited to writing and directing. Acting gets in the way.
For my last question, I wanted to know about the dynamic between him and Jack Nicholson. Both had been lauded as some of the greatest talents of their respective generations, and both also had a reputation for being forceful personalities. I asked if they had ever clashed on the set. Penn's response was possibly the most complimentary I have ever heard a director say about an actor.
Penn: No. No way. It is impossible to clash with Jack Nicholson. The man just doesn't have bad ideas. His ideas either work perfectly, or if they don't work there is a very simple reason why they don't. Jack is one of the most supportive people I've worked with. There's a reason why certain people have made so many classic movies. They're willing to give you everything that they have. They put all their trust in you, and they're willing to go down with the ship if that's what happens.
In the day that I spent around Sean Penn, I found him to be a consummate professional, much more a filmmaker than a "celebrity." He achieves a rarity amongst artists, passion without pretension. His artistry lies in his commitment to the story he is telling. As he put it to a group of acting students, "All that you need to do is tell the story. Today, that will set you apart because nobody is interested in telling stories these days. Martin Sheen told me once that if you have something to say, people would hear it. So make sure that you have something to say."
