The Dartmouth spoke twice with College President James Wright. The following is a complete transcript of the first interview:
President James Wright: I think this is a very exciting opportunity.
The Board has been discussing for a number of years the desirability of investing resources and trying to make the out of classroom experience stronger. With that important theme in mind over the last several months, we decided that it was time to get Dartmouth community participation thinking about what this would be like.
We are prepared to build residence halls and additional social space. We're prepared to rethink the way we do dining here. We're prepared to rethink the way we do programming here. And what we'd like to do is sort of get the community to think about how Dartmouth could be an even stronger place. And that's what the challenge the Trustees have put to us now and I'm very pleased to be a part of that. I think that it's a very strong step.
Obviously some people will read only one piece of this and that has to do with making the residential and the social organizations substantially coeducational. And if we spend our time debating that -- and obviously there will be debate about that -- I recognize that and hopefully, we don't miss the opportunity to be thinking about what a stronger place this could be and what we could do to make it stronger.
The Dartmouth: Although it's obvious from what you just said that it's not the only thing that you want to talk about. I think it's the main thing that people are going want to know: is this going to mean an end to the Greek system as we know it?
Wright: I think, as we know it, yes. It's going to have to evolve and change. It's evolved and changed over the years. I think that the Trustees are challenging us to find ways to have a social system here that's not built on single sex houses.
The Dartmouth: So, do you think that this is going to mean a decrease in number or an elimination completely of single-sex houses?
Wright: Well, I don't know. What we want to see is certainly a significant decrease in number. Whether any of them remain or not I think will depend on what sort of ideas the students themselves have about how these organizations can move up to the next stage of Dartmouth's residential life experience.
The Dartmouth: What are the first steps that you would take in order to go about changing the Greek system as it's such a huge system to begin with?
Wright: I think what we need to do is to get some guidance as to what the system is going to look like and that's what we're soliciting right now. And I think that guidance and that decision will finally be taken by the Board and will give us some idea of the timing for this.
I don't think anything is going to happen abruptly early in the next year. I think that certainly some decision will be taken early in the year. The Board put that language in the statement to make very clear that this was something that they didn't intend to spend a lot time thinking about -- we've thought about it a lot, we've talked about it a lot -- and we'd like to move ahead. I think that was a way of underlining the urgency.
That does not mean that by early in the next academic year the Board would have made a decision on a comprehensive plan for residential and social life. I could imagine by early in the year, we could initiate some process of building some new dormitory residence hall space. But that takes awhile to do and I can imagine that we want to move on that quickly.
And if it's our consensus that we need to replace Webster Hall with a space similar to that, then that is something that we'd probably want to move on quickly.
I think trying to work to change the existing fraternity and sorority organizations... we'll have to see what that change will be, how the systems are going to evolve and then I think the timing will flow from that. And the College will be prepared to invest the money in these organizations as well.
The Dartmouth: You've been around this place for a long time, and probably heard a lot of the suggestions and feelings in terms of what different directions to go. Do you have a feeling as to what you would envision for the social system and the Greek system at Dartmouth?
Wright: Well, sure I've thought about it a lot. But I'm not sure that my vision should be sort of informing this discussion, and I'm anxious to hear what other people have to say. I've spent the last several months trying to talk to a lot of students on the campus, to get a feel from them as to what they would like to see here.
I often ask students, "How would you improve things? What executive order would you sign if I took you over to my office and I asked you to sign an executive order?"
And as you might guess, I get a range of answers -- quite a range of answers. I don't know that I would want at this stage to propose my view of what this system would look like. Because then that becomes a target for people to debate and discuss and I'd rather encourage the students who finally have the greatest stake in what the new system will be like.
It could be that the new system finally won't involve most of the students who are here now. It might... this is something that could be happening over a period of a few years.
We're really thinking ahead to what sort of Dartmouth we want to leave to those students who are going to come after us. And I think that's the question that I've been putting to students.
I know that there are enough students who think the system could be a lot stronger, who think the residential and social opportunities could be a lot stronger.
I think that Dartmouth is a wonderfully rich and diverse community and I'm troubled that we don't have more opportunities for students with different backgrounds and experiences and aspirations to enjoy this community together. And we don't have that. I think we tend to break up in groups that are too often divided by gender, by race or by interest. I don't want to stop that, I think that people should be free to associate with friends or whoever they want. But I think it is time for us to make certain that there aren't institutional, structural or organizational barriers to this sort of opportunity [in order] to get the most students who are different and I just think that we can do better, and I think the Trustees obviously do as well and so we will.
I think that this sort of announcement is to me a very positive step in the history of the College and we can spend a lot of time fighting about this decision, we can spend a lot of time arguing about the principles, and I have no illusion that I can stop people from fighting or arguing or being distressed about the decision that's been taken, but I think it is quite good that these decisions have been taken and the Board very much wants the students to participate and imagine what the next organizational system will be like.
The Dartmouth: What are the changes that might be planned for a centralized dining system?
Wright: Well, I think that's up to you and your classmates and friends, and I think what we're saying here is that we can imagine a different system of dining. One that has perhaps more decentralized elements to it. Maybe a greater variety in the dining system. If students think that such a thing would enrich substantially the out-of-classroom experience here then I think it is time for us to look for ways that do that.
I think that I have no complaint with Thayer. I go there often and enjoy Thayer a lot. It's a chance to sort of meet people that you didn't expect to meet there, and the food is delightful and it's a fine place to go. It's not a criticism of the existing system any more than any part of this is meant to be a criticism of the existing system. It's simply saying "Can't we do better? Isn't it time for us to think of better ways to organize ourselves?"
The Dartmouth: I remember, I think at a faculty meeting, a couple of years ago, maybe even my freshman year, where the topic of completely revamping our dining system to the point where it was almost to the point of a college system like they have at Yale and Princeton. Is that something that you see?
Wright: I think to have that system would be very complicated and expensive. I'd like to see what the students think.
I'm not trying to model what we do on what Yale or Harvard or any other place does. I think what we're talking about is what a Dartmouth residential and social life system would look like. But I think a decentralized dining could be a part of it. This wouldn't have to be within the houses. That would be a fairly extensive situation.
On the other hand, if we had two or three other smaller dining halls on the Dartmouth campus that provide perhaps locations for more dinners with programming associated with them from time to time that can be cleared out to provide social spaces on different parts of the campus in the evening.
I think that student imagination probably could lead us to some wonderful expedience here. Some wonderful ways to try to advance to the best that we can.
The Dartmouth: In terms of the residence halls changes. What are the possibilities ... Is it going change the residence halls that we already have?
Wright: We are certainly going to refurbish and renovate some of the existing residence halls. That's part of the project list right now. We're going to try to do some work in filling the Choates and make that residence all the more attractive.
But we're also looking into building new beds and we're prepared to think of the magnitude of two to three to four hundred beds if that's what it would require. A substantial amount of new residence space.
I'd love to get back on campus what we think to be around two hundred students who live currently off campus.
We have no interest in forcing students to live on campus who don't want to. But we know that there are students who live off campus often times because it's their only alternative or their best option. And I'd like to bring some of those students back on campus.
When I think of new residence halls I think of spaces that provide more apartments where more students can live together in groups and perhaps have their own meals, prepare their own meals. I think of town-houses. I think of smaller scale complexes and social spaces that could mimic some of the fraternities and sorority houses for the residences... and again let's let the student imagination try to guide us on this on how we can make this place even stronger and make the out-of-classroom experience more positive.
The Dartmouth: There were plans announced in the summer and fall for the East Wheelock cluster and the Choates. Have these been put on hold?
Wright: No. No. We're advancing them now. That's related to this but independent of these new initiatives, and that's to replace some of the beds that we're going to be losing to the renovation and decompression of some of the rooms.
There are some rooms now that are currently triples that really should be doubles, and there are some doubles that should be singles. We're going to do that.
That decompression is going to require some more beds and so the Choate project and the Wheelock project are really aimed at meeting those particular concerns.
The Dartmouth: What is the timeline you have in mind for these projects and, also, where is the funding going to come from to renovate all the dorms?
Wright: The projects that we've already initiated we have provided funding for those. The Choate and Wheelock projects are funded. It's through debt and other College resources.
I think that in terms of new residence halls and complexes, we probably would fund those through debt. We're talking about bringing current off-campus students back on-campus so there would be a revenue source that would help pay that debt, but we're prepared to take on that responsibility.
I think some of the other spaces, social and dining spaces -- that I'm certainly prepared to go to work to raise the money for that room. We'll find the means to pay for these things... we need to underline that the Trustees understand when they take a vote as they did last weekend that they are committing this College to taking some significant and major steps, to be talking tens of millions of dollars before this is over, and we're prepared to do that.
The Dartmouth: How committed are you and the Trustees, especially when you are talking about the Greek system, it seems like there is the potential at least, for the Trustees and yourself to be favoring a plan that might result in substantial opposition from students as well as, I would imagine, from alumni.
Wright: We expect that. We expect that some people will balk at these sorts of changes and improvements, and as I said in my letter, this is not a referendum on those things. We are committed to doing this.
Obviously, I don't at this stage of my presidency invest in myself and what I'm trying to do lightly, and in something of this magnitude, I think it's important, and I'm absolutely convinced it's necessary for some major steps to try to improve the quality of student life here and we're going to do that.
And of course there will be opposition, but I hope that people are, as they are opposing it and saying it is wrong, will also be thinking about how we can make it better because we need the creative energy of the students to finally make this work. If it ends up sort of being the Administration and the Trustees that finally prepare the new plan and the new model, I think that would be just a tremendous opportunity lost. I'm confident that there will be a lot of students who find they will want to participate in an opportunity that very few students here and at any other institution have had -- the opportunity to imagine again how student life could be enhanced significantly.
The Dartmouth: In terms of a timeline, when would you expect the decisions, a plan, to be made, a finalized plan to be made in terms of social option systems, and at what point, I know it would be harder to tell, but at what point would you expect it to be implemented?
Wright: You mean in terms of fraternities and sororities?
The Dartmouth: Yes, in terms of fraternities and sororities.
Wright: I think the decision has been made at that. We're going to become a coeducational system, one that is more inclusive of students that provide more variety, more options.
I think how that evolves, the timing of it, changing to this new system will depend on a lot of things, it will depend on what we think the new system should be like, and we're very much dependent on student input, participation, and we're not going to abruptly start to alter things.
We want to work through this and make sure it works well. We don't want people to have made commitments or participating in organizations with certain understandings. We're not going to suddenly put them out, we don't have any authority to put them out. Most of these houses are privately owned. I think it is critical for us to work with the houses and talk with them about how this will happen and how it will work. I'm kind of looking for cooperation that will make this happen -- I think cooperation is critical.
The Dartmouth: But it would be fair to say that the decision has been made [concerning] the Greek system?
Wright: I think that that's clear. That's one of the bullet points of the Trustee statement.
The Dartmouth: What would be happening to those historically black fraternities and sororities?
Wright: I think that as with all of the organizations, we are probably going to talk with each of them. I think that those places that are residential have more burden here than those places that are not residential. I think that most of the historically black fraternities and sororities are not residential, so they are not playing the same sort of role in the social life of this community that the residential houses are.
The Dartmouth: You mentioned the fact that a lot of the houses are mostly privately-owned; that brings up the question of how the College will go about [acquiring them]?
Wright: Well I think that over the next several months I'm hopeful that we can work with the houses and their organizations to find a way that is expedient and satisfactory for them to participate fully in this decision on social and residential life here at the College. We're certainly prepared to purchase houses -- but that's a two way street, they have to be prepared to sell them obviously.
We're prepared to invest money in the houses, we're prepared to help with renovation, we're prepared to help with programming funds, we're prepared to help in any of a number of ways to be able to facilitate the transformation of these organizations.
The Dartmouth: And if houses are resistant to this plan?
Wright: I think we have to deal with that as we come to it. I think the Trustees commitment is clear here. I'm expecting we can work with the houses to find a way -- if somebody's resistant then we just have to deal with that at the appropriate time. I'm just not focused now on what sort of expedience we have, none of us are looking to have a prolonged fight with our students. I'm not looking for that. Surely. We'll deal with these things over the next several months. Indeed, by the fall the Board is in a position to begin to talk in some more detail about what this system would look like, they probably would have some statement or something to say on this issue, but it's a matter they haven't addressed yet.
The Dartmouth: As someone who has been around this institution for a long time and knows a lot about its history, could you put this in some perspective for us. How momentous is this decision?
Wright: Oh I think in terms of student out-of-the-classroom life, social and residential life, I think that in the time I've been here it ranks with Coeducation.
We're talking about investing significant amounts of money in making it what it's always been -- a strong experience... Dartmouth has the potential to be just an unparalleled place for students to come together and learn from each other, and I don't think that we're meeting that opportunity now, and I'm just anxious to begin moving and to advance us even more towards that sort of goal. So I think that this has a tremendous potential.
It's not equivalent to Coeducation. Coeducation altered this place from top to bottom in so many positive and fundamental ways; so I'm not saying it's at all equivalent to that, but I think that would be the only thing that's happened here that probably would exceed this in terms of effecting the quality of the student experience at Dartmouth.
And there definitely is no doubt in my mind that eight or 10 years from now, the quality of the student experience as a result of these things will be far stronger than it is today. I know this underestimates the transition cost and I know this underestimates the fact that some people are going to be frustrated about changing systems that they are comfortable with, but there definitely is no doubt in my mind that this will make Dartmouth even stronger.
The Dartmouth: How do you envision the role of alcohol within the new system?
Wright: I think we want to talk to students about that. I think that last year when the [College Committee on Alcohol and Other Drugs] came in with a set of proposals, I think that the students worked with them to try to make something that was manageable.
I think everyone agrees that there is still an abusive and unsafe use of alcohol on the campus and I think that we all have an obligation -- the students, the administration, the faculty, everyone here -- has an obligation to work to try to eliminate that. This is not a place where students should be harmed. We should try to eliminate that.
And I don't have a plan in mind because finally, the only way that happens is that we begin to finally shift the nature of student culture in some ways, the way that students approach alcohol here. Doing that is not going to be by better rules. Dartmouth can't become a police state that sort of monitors the behavior at the level that this would require. We really have to get students engaged to change the nature of the culture.
The Dartmouth: We're not talking about becoming a dry campus?
Wright: I wouldn't even fantasize how to make a dry campus here. I'm concerned about abusive and unsafe use of alcohol. I'm concerned about you. Sometimes more than the students are concerned about themselves, I'm concerned about them. I just want to make certain that we're doing everything that we possibly can to be able to assure you and your parents that we're trying to make this a safe environment.
