In a political world where it's hard to say where anybody stands on anything, one can always count on pundits Tucker Carlson and Paul Begala to tell people -- and each other -- exactly what they think. Every weekday on CNN's "Crossfire," the two come bounding from their left and right corners and duke it out on the top issues of the day. After broadcasting from the Top of the Hop Monday, they spoke to The Dartmouth.
The Dartmouth: It's been said that there are three tickets out of New Hampshire. Do you think that's true and who do you think is coming out and who's going to be throwing in the towel soon?
Paul Begala: Well I don't want to say just yet. From here they scatter across the country. They go to South Carolina, where John Edwards and probably Wes Clark are going to be strong. They go to Missouri, where John Kerry is going to be strong. They go to Arizona and New Mexico, where Howard Dean's campaign believes they have a good chance. So they're going to spread all over. So I don't know that New Hampshire will do much in winnowing the field but it will put them through their paces, test them and give the winner here a big leg up in the next group of states.
TD: Which candidate do you see having the most to gain in New Hampshire and who has the most to lose?
Tucker Carlson: Well, John Kerry, of course, has the most to lose, and Howard Dean has the most to gain. Dean is essentially over if he doesn't win tomorrow, and if Kerry wins, he's got to be called the presumptive nominee.
TD: Speaking of Dean, how would you assess his damage control post-Iowa?
TC: I think it's been pretty good. I'm sort of sickened by candidates who drag their spouses around. In the abstract, I saw the Diane Sawyer thing, and I thought she was going to be some terrifying retrograde '70s bra-burner type. She seemed really sweet; I liked her, actually. My favorite line was when Diane Sawyer asked, "Why did you do this interview?" Rather than saying like a normal political wife, "because it's so important that Howard Dean become president," or some sort of bullshit like that, she said, "I did it because he asked me to."
TD: How do you think Howard Dean did spinning his Iowa outburst by going on Letterman and reading the Top 10? Did that help at all?
PB: No. It was all he could do. He had to do something. You can't shine shit. You can't shine a cow patty as we say in Texas. And he had an enormous problem: He's begun over the course of the week, to dig out of it, but you can't do it with one event, one funny thing on Letterman, one heartfelt interview with Diane Sawyer. You've got to slowly build out of it. But I think it's more about the ideas and a sense of relevance to peoples' lives that will resurrect his candidacy, not a stunt.
TD: How do you see Republicans influencing tomorrow's outcome, and who will they be voting for?
TC: Well they'll be voting for Howard Dean, obviously. If you're going to vote tactically, and presumably if you're a Republican, that's why you're voting. You're voting not your conscience or your gut necessarily; you're voting to achieve some sort of Machiavellian purpose and then you'd vote for Howard Dean, of course. You want Howard Dean, you want -- just like journalists want -- a candidate with limited self-control, and he has limited self-control.
TD: If you had one piece of advice for each of the candidates, what would it be?
PB: Well for all of them it'd be the same thing. Talk about voters' lives, not yours. Don't talk about your own campaign. I don't really care about how many volunteers you have. I want to know what you can do about my life, my grandmother's Medicare, my brother's education, my kid's public schools. Politicians tend to be self-absorbed, and sometimes they talk only about themselves and their own campaign.
TD: What was the toughest moment during the '92 campaign when you worked for then-Gov. Clinton?
PB: Actually, it wasn't here in New Hampshire because it's so exciting here; it was in California. Clinton won the California primary against Jerry Brown. And we got nothing out of it because the press turned all of its attention to this psychotic billionaire from Texas. Perot decided he was going to run and had vaulted into first place. And it really was disheartening because we were doing everything right. We'd won more delegates than anyone had in history. And nobody cared. So that's what led us to do the Arsenio Hall show and TV, all the alternative media, as a necessity, because the mainstream media wouldn't cover us. For good reason they had a more exciting story.
TD: Would you recommend one of the lesser candidates in the race right now to do the same thing?
PB: Yes, yes I would.
TD: You've been pegged as something of a teen idol in the world of political analysis. Is that a difficult mantle to handle?
TC: First of all, I doubt that that's true. Second, if so, it's the lowest possible bar. I mean that's like being Miss Bulgaria. There's not a lot of competition. I will say James Carville was voted one of America's sexiest people. So that shows you what a sick, sick country this is, a pathetically misguided country we live in.
TD: Bold predictions: Who drops out after New Hampshire?
TC: I've got to say Joe Lieberman.
TD: Top four finishers in tomorrow's primary in order?
TC: I'll go completely conventional, I'll say Kerry, Dean, Edwards, Clark.
TD: Who wins in an arm wrestling match, Carlson or Begala?
TC: I won't say who, but last time we did it, one of us said, "Mommy, Mommy, help!' and ran away crying, and it was not me.
